In the 5th episode of the Navingo Career Podcast, it's all about Feadship! Coco and Anna talk to Marc Levadou, Knowledge & Innovation Manager at de Voogt Naval Architects at Feadship. He shares the latest innovations, what the 'Nemo Lounge' is, why Feadship also looks at what is happening in the automotive and aerospace industries, and how cool it is to work with colleagues who have a 'Do or Die' mentality—why they go to extreme lengths to make almost impossible wishes possible. Read the interview below or listen to episode #05 on Spotify , Podbean , Apple , or Google.
You are a Knowledge & Innovation Manager at De Voogt Naval Architects for Feadship; can I conclude, then, that you simply know everything about Feadship?
'No, no, Feadship is too big for that! But I do know a lot.'
What exactly do you do at Feadship?
The department handles innovation projects—R&D projects—for Feadship, and that knowledge component is knowledge management. Knowledge management is important in a large organization; you have to ensure that the knowledge gained in a project is available to the rest of the organization after a sea trial, for example. And certainly when you have different shipyards and different locations, that is naturally a challenge. We are not the library where everything is collected. The role of my department within Feadship is more about creating the web. The spiders can start moving, and we create the web so that people know how to find each other for information.
Can you give an example of something important that needs to be 'rolled out' to all shipyards?
Yes, during every sea trial—and anyone who has ever experienced a sea trial or delivered a boat will recognize this—you inevitably encounter something that breaks, doesn't work properly, or is different from what you had envisioned. Often, the people solving the issues hands-on amidst the hustle and bustle know exactly what the problem is. But if they run into the same problem at another shipyard, they don't know. And especially if something was already wrong in the design, there is a risk that the mistake will be repeated. So, lessons learned is one of the techniques of knowledge management, and certainly with multiple shipyards and multiple locations, that is all the more important.
Why should you keep innovating?
Because you have to remain competitive. Continuously adapting to the changing world—and I think that applies to every industry, not just shipbuilding and yacht building—is extremely important. If you make a product like the one we make, which is a technical masterpiece, you have to ensure that you continuously implement the technical or process changes necessary to guarantee exclusivity and the highest quality. So innovation is vital; if you don't innovate, you will eventually fall behind after a few years. Your competitors will then overtake you and start delivering higher quality at a lower price.
Marc Levadou, Knowledge & Innovation Manager at De Voogt Naval Architects of Feadship.
With so much blood, sweat, and tears. Yes, then there is a piece of me in that boat too.
What are the biggest challenges or innovations you have experienced so far?
An example is the motor yacht 'Savannah'. It was the first hybrid yacht with diesel-electric propulsion and counter-rotating propellers. That was very efficient. You charge the batteries where possible, and in places where you want to be very quiet—meaning you don't want to use the engines or generators or have any emissions—you run on the batteries. And yet, that yacht is already six years old. At the time, it was an innovation where the techniques were already being used here and there in conventional shipping, but to achieve all of that in a yacht was truly remarkable.
That really hadn't been done on a yacht back then. Since then it has been done more often, so that was indeed at the beginning of a transition.
And one of the examples that is often cited is the motor yacht 'Venus', which we delivered quite some time ago. What made it special was not so much a single innovation, but rather that the client had a very specific idea of what that yacht should look like, with extensive use of glass. We had never managed to achieve that on that scale and with that size before. The beauty of this client was that he was extremely demanding, very involved in the engineering and the designs, and really pushed us to the limit. Every time we came up with proposals for the solutions he had, he would say: “No, no, I want the dodger even narrower, I want the windows even bigger, I don't want to see those mullions.”
'Then we had to go back to, "Okay, but how are we going to solve this now?" And yes, the engineers were really pushed to the limit, and the beauty of Feadship is that a lot has to happen before we actually say "no" to a client. So we always try to look at it like, "Okay, but how can that be done?" With all that glass, we also collaborated with external parties. With a professor from TU Delft who knows a lot about glass in construction. You really have to do that to take that step further, using technology from other industries to ultimately really make it happen. You have to broaden your perspective.'
The great thing about this client was that he was extremely demanding, very involved in the technology and the designs, and really pushed us to the limit.
Many of the innovations we develop are often things we see in other industries and think, "Hey, but what if we translate that to yacht building? What happens then? What is possible?" That is happening a lot in the digitalization of yachts as well. With modern cars in the very luxury segment, for example, when you are sitting in the car, you see your own car driving around the area before parking. That is based on aggregated camera footage that films the surroundings around the car. And yes, we think it would be really cool to apply that technology to a yacht. There are yachts that end up in a very busy harbor and require a large crew and walkie-talkies to guide the yacht through the harbor without damage. So yes, we are in discussions with suppliers to car manufacturers about what that would look like if we were to translate that to a yacht. They think it is great fun to enter this industry as well. We are not there yet, but we definitely see possibilities.
That is what we are constantly looking for. What is happening around us? Especially in industries where a series of products are manufactured, such as cars and airplanes. There, you often see that certain technologies can be applied sooner because you recoup the investment faster; they have reached a certain level of maturity. And translating those practices to yacht building, that is what we are trying to do. Among other things, of course.
Innovation
This is right up your alley, isn't it, Anna? In terms of industrial design?
Anna: 'Yeah, with all those interfaces and stuff, yes, that's nice to hear!'
So maybe Anna will come visit your department sometime. That would be really funny.
Our design department, the ones who sit down with clients and create the designs, are almost entirely industrial designers. However, there are certainly a number of yacht builders and shipbuilders among them as well, because technology is of course very important too. But definitely drawing the lines and translating a client's wishes into something that looks beautiful—that is truly industrial design work.
You have great assignments for students too, right?
Yes, from my department with the innovation projects, we actually have graduating students continuously. They can be shipbuilders, but also mechanical engineers, aircraft engineers, electrical engineers—quite a broad range, because the subjects we are working on are very broad.
What kind of assignments do you give those students?
'What is of course very important right now, and something that many students are also eager to work on, is the energy transition. So there are quite a few students who want to investigate a design, integration, or problems in the field of, for example, hydrogen or methanol propulsion. What does that look like? What would a yacht with such a propulsion system and fuel look like? What challenges do you face? How far along are the engine manufacturers? What will the efficiency be? So really the shipbuilding side, but also the integration side. Greening shipping is really very important.'
So, is it possible that you conduct research as a student at Feadship and that it actually becomes reality?
'Yes, the glass research is very concrete. We have had the idea for some time that you could also use glass as a construction material. Normally, glass is not used in shipbuilding. Glass cannot absorb the forces on the hull. You ensure that it is decoupled precisely so that the yacht deforms and the glass is not hit. But glass is also simply a material that can absorb tension. So we have been thinking for a while: could you also use it as a construction material? A student then conducted research. And some tests were done regarding how much tension and how much force you can apply to a glass panel. At a certain point, the maturity of such an innovation progresses. And now we have progressed so far with that research that we are offering it to our customers. So we could now also make window sections where you no longer need mullions, vertical interruptions, at all. We can let the glass absorb that.'
So instead of a very large window, a gigantic window?
Yes, without interruptions. That gives designers enormous opportunities and freedom. That entire research process took a number of years, and it really started with students who began working on that topic. And that is just one example. It is really great; for us, they are extra hands, and especially when someone is enthusiastic about the subject and brings the research to a good result, well, that really helps us move forward in all the research we do.
Using glass as a building material hasn't actually happened yet, but is it going to happen?
'Yes, because all the boxes have been ticked, including the regulatory classification. Regulators initially said: That will never work, but with an alternative design study you demonstrate that it is possible. So ultimately they said: okay, if you approach it this way with those extra safety features, then it is possible. So we are confident that it can be done and that we can execute it.'
How big is the department where you work? How big is your team?
There are six people working on projects as R&D project leaders. Sometimes it is a one-person project, but sometimes it is a team. And that team is formed with people from across Feadship; these can be people from the shipyard, from De Voogt Naval Architects, from engineering, or from Refit & Services, with whom we also collaborate on many projects. So a team is created for every project, where a few students are supervised and conduct research almost continuously.
You've been working at Feadship for quite a while now. What is it like to work for Feadship?
'Yes, very nice! Otherwise, I indeed wouldn't have been working there for so long. The reason I am personally charmed by Feadship is because they operate at the top of the segment; they build the best yachts in the world. And that means the focus is also on making that happen. So the people are super passionate, really wanting to get the very best out of it. And that just suits me. People who also look very closely at costs. And who basically just want to make the impossible possible. Yes, that really fascinates me. It is also very hands-on; ultimately, a product simply has to be delivered. We are actually producing something, and I like that too, seeing something sail past. That at a certain point it is truly realized and finished.'
Do you have a favorite yacht?
'Yes, those are primarily the yachts I worked on myself. When I started at Feadship, I was a project manager for engineering, and the first yacht I worked on was the motor yacht 'Tango,' hull number 802, which was built on the Kaag at Royal Van Lent. That was quite a new type of design at the time. With an external designer, 'Eidsgaard,' who had some rather wild ideas. I thought it turned out very beautifully; technically speaking, it had a lot of power, was also quite complex, and became very light, even though it had a lot of volume. That was quite challenging. And I think it is my favorite because I was so personally involved in it, and so much blood, sweat, and tears went into making it happen. Yes, then there is a piece of me in that boat too.'
Is everyone proud of what is being made?
Yes, that is very much the case. From engineering and designers to the people who actually put it together. There is enormous pride in the product and ultimately in what has been achieved. And that is what binds Feadship together.
Is there anything you would say: This is what I learned by working at Feadship?
'Well, on a personal level, before I joined Feadship, I worked at MARIN, and they are all scientists. There, I did projects, model trials, etcetera with clients. And you're surrounded by people doing scientific studies, who studied at a technical university, and who are super smart. That creates a certain atmosphere. When you join a shipyard, there are also people who are very hands-on, which I really appreciated but also something I had to learn. If you stick to scientific language, your story won't be understood. So, a real lesson was to articulate the ideas I had in plain language. Much more hands-on and goal-oriented than the scientific approach I was used to before. And ultimately, what really fascinated me is the 'Do or Die' mentality, which I also greatly appreciated and still do.'
Do you have another example, like the IMAX theater on the 'Lady S' for instance, of what else is being built?
What often happens is that a client has a specific idea, or has seen something, or is triggered by one of our designers, and then, well, then we have to run, so to speak, to get everything done. To realize his dream.
'On the Savannah, at some point the idea came up: how cool would it be (they naturally visit places where very beautiful fish swim) if you could just look at them from a comfortable chair, underwater. And then the idea was that it wouldn't just be underwater, but that the window would also sit below the waterline, because the fish swim just below the surface. Regarding large windows located at the waterline in terms of ship safety, the first thing regulations say is: that won't do, that isn't possible, that is where you get hit. Glass isn't strong enough. We're not going to do that.'
'That is the nice thing about regulations, and certainly the people who work on the yachts for us; they are used to a lot. Ultimately, if it doesn't fit within the current rules, then you have to look for an alternative that makes it just as safe, or even slightly safer. So we eventually made it happen: a very large window section with the 'Nemo Lounge', where they can simply look outside from various luxury chairs.'
'Nemo Lounge' on the 'Savannah'. Photo, Feadship.
So, just to give you an idea. You're sitting on board the ship in a sort of lounge-like setting, and then you look outside and immediately underwater?
'Yes! And especially towards dusk, then the underwater lights can be switched on. The fish find that interesting and come towards it. It's basically just an aquarium, only the other way around. And that yacht has very quiet battery-powered propulsion. So they can get to places where ordinary vessels aren't allowed, a very special experience; they see the whales swimming past.'
These are the clients who are somewhat more adventurous. Clients who really enjoy discovering the world and sailing a lot. That also means that you can do some really fun things in terms of ship designs.
And in terms of sustainability and emissions as well?
'Yes certainly, we are of course also people living in this world who see what is happening with climate change. So, as Feadship itself, we believe that we must also take a leading role in this. Our customers also consider this important and are sometimes willing to spend more money on it to help us as a yacht builder/shipbuilder to achieve this development. Our customers are aware that they must and want to take their own responsibility in this as well. So, there is an increasing demand for it. Why aren't there solar panels on a boat? That is a question that comes up very often from our customers.'
Privacy is of paramount importance at Feadship. There is no discussion about the owners, the content of the requests, or anything of that nature. On the other hand, it would actually be nice to make that public. To show what is being made. Why is that actually the case?
In principle, that is because the yachts are for private use. And many of our clients also view their yacht as a way to escape from everything and everyone around them. Of course, they do have a crew on board, but it is very much a private matter. So we are very careful about that. In fact, we never talk about it. Some of our clients come forward themselves with the fact that they are having something built at Feadship. That is their prerogative, but we would never do that ourselves. Furthermore, we only photograph the interior and release the images if the owner gives permission. Not everyone likes having their bathroom or bedroom photographed.
The product is unique and real to them. So their emotion and their feelings are in it. And not everyone wants to put that out there. And the exterior, well, you can't keep that a secret; everyone sees that. So we can always show that.
The 'Savannah'. Photo, Feadship.
You did recently introduce UnIQ. People can sign up online to attend a webinar that offers a behind-the-scenes look at all kinds of departments.
Yes, and our department is working very hard on that, because it concerns technology and innovation. And it is indeed new for us to showcase not only the exterior and the design side, but also a great deal about the technology, the content, the innovation, and the R&D we do. We are going to do a series of four webinars; two have already taken place, and the next ones are coming in the autumn.
'The first one was about the digitalization of the yachts and everything related to that, which I presented myself. The second one was about sustainability, the greening of production, and the greening of the yachts. It was fun to do, and I am very proud of the result.'
Is there another project, coming up or currently working on, that you can tell us something about, or that you are really looking forward to?
'Yes, I am working on that digitalization, and you really have to compare it to what happened with cars or with your phone, with many of the everyday devices you use. I find it incredibly fascinating; the technologies that will become possible by focusing much more on data connectivity are really going to help us design better yachts, but also support the crew. Autonomous ships are often spoken of as the final stage of digitalization. Well, a yacht will never be autonomous, because the customer is on board and will really just want a crew around them. But all the technologies that are going to be developed to achieve autonomous ships, we are going to apply those, and that will ultimately help the crew as well. I find that really fascinating: where the opportunities lie and what is already possible now, what will be possible in five years, what will be possible in ten years? That is very interesting to be working on and trying to make happen.'
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